DUST Search - How can mass drivers be fixed?

mikegunnz wrote:

The DPS argument is stupid when it comes to MD vs AR.
Take an average AR user, if they are shooting at a moving target, they will miss with a number of their rounds. DPS is not an end all be all stat. Particularly if you miss with 1/3 of your shots. Or even 1/2 your shots. (depending on their aim)

With the MD, even if your aim isn't great, once you get the hang of it, you just have to get close. Getting close, nets you splash damage. Getting close with an AR, nets you jack ****. And getting close is easy with MD, you just shoot at the ground in front/behind and left/right. No direct hits necessary, just a few near misses, and the target is dead.

Truth is, the MD has had a couple buffs. (not just 1) It currently IS OP.
It needs one of those buffs reversed. (not both, because it may be underpowered again, if that happened.)

I'd say EITHER reduce the rounds per drum back down to original numbers (2 less than currently)
OR
Reduce the splash damage radius to prior levels. This way, the shooters aim has to be pretty good, and someone with crap aim only gets marginal effect.


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KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.21 20:59:00 - [1] - Quote An assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. A basic variant standard assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range. Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and that is usually all you will get since direct hits are rare. 387.5 > 225 387.5 > 115 In exchange for the higher difficulty to use, less damage per magazine (1350 < 1860) , and the crappy DPS compared to the AR, the mass driver gets to bypass cover, and damage multiple enemies with splash damage. Its a fair trade-off. I don't get how people can say the mass driver is OP, OP compared to what exactly? Weapons of the same class (light, heavy, sidearm) have to be compared to each other and balanced against each other so that they all have their roles and uses, yet no one can make an argument with math and stats of the mass driver compared to the AR to suggest that the MD is overpowered (I pick AR since its the most used light weapon). It really really bothers me that people whine and complain about the MD, or any other light weapon that cones close to being as good or useful as the AR, the AR isn't suppose to be the only good weapon. People like this really pi$$ me off, and if you are reading this and you're one of these people that want to ruin the MD and turn it into a crappy novelty again, then screw you and go do some math.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.22 02:51:00 - [2] - Quote Dr Debo Galaxy wrote: Goat of Dover wrote: Dr Debo Galaxy wrote: The way I would fix mass drivers is to make the clip smaller and longer reloads. Then have a arming distance so that 0-10m the munition would not be armed. So you could get real close and counter that way. Then I would make the propulsion weaker so the shooter would have to aim high into the air to get distance. Wow that would make them weaker than they were before chromosome. I don't think it would make them weaker, just harder to use. They are usually called noob tubes because they are easy to use, not because they are powerful. A forge gun has a lot of power but you can not just shoot multiple rounds rapidly like a mass driver. My main point would be the arming distance, with that there would be a very viable counter to the Mass Driver. NO They are called noob tubes because that's what people call the easy-to-use grenade launchers in Call of Duty games, and since CoD is the most popular shooter franchise, and that became the nickname for all grenade launchers in all shooters even if those grenade launchers are not easy to use at all. What you are suggesting would definitely make mass drivers weaker, this is not speculation; we have seen mass drivers with smaller magazines before Chromosome build, and they were not on par with other light weapons. What you are suggesting would be even more extreme than reverting them back to pre-Chromosome. MASS DRIVERS ARE FINE. Copy/paste evidence: "A standard basic variant assault rifle contains more damage per magazine than a mass driver, and is way easier to use since it just shoots exactly where you point without having to predict paths. The standard basic variant assault rifle (which does 31 damage per shot) for example has 387.5 damage PER SECOND, which means in 2 SECONDS, it does 775 damage, enough to kill basically anyone but a well built heavy (which would just a second more second). The assault rifle can be used effectively at a greater ranges, and has no risk of damaging the user at close range. Compare this to a basic variant standard mass diver. An MD fires 60 rounds per minute, which is 1 round per second. It does 225 shots per second if its a direct hit; did you read that? only 225 per second, and that is ONLY if you get a direct hit (rare). The basic variant standard AR does 387.5. Landing a direct hit with a mass driver not only takes more skill to do then getting direct hits with the AR (since you have to predict trajectory), but also does LESS damage per second. Now to the splash damage, the splash damage is 115 per shot (and per second since 1 shot per second), and that is usually all you will get since direct hits are rare. 387.5 > 225 387.5 > 115 In exchange for the higher difficulty to use, less damage per magazine (1350 for MD < for 1860 AR) , and the crappy DPS compared to the AR, the mass driver gets to bypass cover, and damage multiple enemies with splash damage. Its a fair trade-off." Math > whining.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.22 03:16:00 - [3] - Quote Dr Debo Galaxy wrote: So the mass driver is not a grenade launcher? This is an actual question. To me it seems all you have to do with a mass driver is shoot to the left, then the right, then the middle and death. But you all know best so you tell me. Of course its a grenade launcher, I'm saying its not a "noob tube" because that term implies its easy when its not. If my math isn't good enough for you, go get a friend, kill a bunch of people with your AR while your friend times you, then calculate the average speed for AR kills. After that, get a mass driver, do the same calculations, and compare. Also take into account the range of the mass driver compared to the AR. Try for yourself.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Seraphim Initiative. CRONOS. 3064	Posted - 2013.01.22 04:06:00 - [4] - Quote mikegunnz wrote: The DPS argument is stupid when it comes to MD vs AR. Take an average AR user, if they are shooting at a moving target, they will miss with a number of their rounds. DPS is not an end all be all stat. Particularly if you miss with 1/3 of your shots. Or even 1/2 your shots. (depending on their aim) With the MD, even if your aim isn't great, once you get the hang of it, you just have to get close. Getting close, nets you splash damage. Getting close with an AR, nets you jack ****. And getting close is easy with MD, you just shoot at the ground in front/behind and left/right. No direct hits necessary, just a few near misses, and the target is dead. Truth is, the MD has had a couple buffs. (not just 1) It currently IS OP. It needs one of those buffs reversed. (not both, because it may be underpowered again, if that happened.) I'd say EITHER reduce the rounds per drum back down to original numbers (2 less than currently) OR Reduce the splash damage radius to prior levels. This way, the shooters aim has to be pretty good, and someone with crap aim only gets marginal effect. You realize that the AR is hitscan right? your shots instantly hit a soon as you pull the trigger. MD however is a slow moving projectile with a very curved trajectory. This makes splash radius and damage totally fair. The range argument is pretty weak. An MD has an advantage at close range, but an AR has an advantage against the MD user at mid-long range. Every gun has a range they excel at, the fact that the MD has a range where it kicks ass is not a problem at all considering how it becomes almost useless at mid-long range. You could actually beat an MD user in close range if you can do over 1 whole second of hitting your target because of the higher DPS, and its really hard to miss at close range. MD dominated is close range, yet you can still beat it with less than 2 seconds of hitting your target. It takes at least 3 hits of splash damage (115) to kill someone, which is 3 seconds at least; not only can this be avoided by just jumping in the air to avoid the splash, but the AR user needs less than 2 seconds, so f your AR aim is good (which it should be ant close range) then you should win. Ever thought maybe those mass driver users didn't miss? that they were intending to hurt you with splash damage? It isn't missing if its intentional. Seriously, jumping up in the air, and dealing less than 2 seconds of damage at close range is not that hard. What's next, AR users are going to complain that shotguns are too good at close range?